It was eventually evaluated that the .38-caliber round was significantly less effective in overall stopping-power than the .45 Colt against determined opponents in cases such as the Moro juramentado warriors, who were encountered in the Moro Rebellion. Sorry buddy but your statistics are flawed and biased. the “experts” can knock the .45 24/7 but cannot, at this time, that it is the finest pistol cartridge the USA has ever produced. Why would anyone want a caliber that offers both low capacity and low speed? I am here today thanks to a 1911 45 manufactured in 1917. By Josh Wayner Traded for it in ‘Nam, the ARVN were still using WW11 weapons at the time, my rifle jammed, the .45 did not. However, there are occasions when the shorter .45 ACP tubes produce greater velocity than the longer barrels. Recent testing of the three major police and military calibers by the Federal Bureau of Investigation found that the .45 ACP was no more effective with regard to terminal ballistics than either 9 x 19mm Parabellum or .40 S&W. Caliber. A .45 averages about 11.3”-14.3” penetration. Today’s state of the art is striker fire but the P220 was and still is a fine pistol. You can push anything to any speed one desires, so long as materials hold together and that might look great! USA –  -(Ammoland.com)- I got into a discussion with several local gentlemen over last Christmas about things typical to those who frequent gun stores. 45-ACP Velocity vs Barrel Length. This is also why more often than not, a +P load gives better performance in a full size pistol such as the M1911 than… Read more ». [19] In addition, select military and police units around the world still use firearms firing the .45 ACP. So if low velocity and low round count are bad, then the pmr30 would be pretty close to ideal. Liberty Civil Defense .45 ACP ammunition is a high velocity, extremely accurate load designed for self-defense. Call us at (540) 898-9256, If you have questions. The .45 has benefited from modern manufacturing processes and improved bullet technology. The .45 ACP handguns ranked last, largely due to increased recoil. You will discover velocity increases in these longer barrels is actually quite minimal, compared to other calibers. good job on the article, Josh. The chambering is massively popular all over the country and, at the same time, is subject to nearly endless criticism over why exactly it has survived into our modern era. [19], Pistol cartridge designed by John Moses Browning, Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives, "Juramentados and the development of the Colt .45 caliber Model 1911 - The Manila Times Online", "ANG "KALIBRE 45" AT ANG PAKIKIBAKA NG MGA MANDIRIGMANG PILIPINO", "Background Information on the M1911 .45 Caliber Pistol", "Voluntary Industry Performance Standards for Pressure and Velocity of Centerfire Pistol, "Case Closed: FBI Says 9mm Is The Best Pistol Round", Español: Evolucion de los marcajes de las pistolas sistema Colt del ejercito Argentino, "Fugitive gunman shoots drug-taking relative", "Súng ngắn mạ vàng thiết kế riêng cho Tổng thống Mỹ Donald Trump", "Short History of the .451 Detonics Magnum", SMLE No.1 Mk III* & Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk.I, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=.45_ACP&oldid=994964798, Short description is different from Wikidata, Articles with unsourced statements from January 2014, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License, .45 Auto. “Accuracy” and follow up shots in a gunfight is really up to the shooter’s abilities. We are currently using Missouri Bullet company 185 SWC coated bullets and 3.6 grs. I have 15 + 1 capacity. doubled in size…and since .45 ACP is bigger to start with, it became massive in the end. [19] The Super is dimensionally identical to the .45 ACP; however, the cartridge carries a developer established pressure of 28,500 psi (197 MPa) and requires minor modification of firearms for use. [2] The round was developed due to a lack of stopping power experienced in the Moro Rebellion using the .38 Long Colt. I have a couple of questions regarding reloads for 45 ACP 1911 Bullseye loads. [11] All dimensions are in inches (millimeter), The common rifling twist rate for this cartridge is 1 in 16 in (406 mm), 6 grooves, Ø lands = .442" (11.23 mm), Ø grooves = .45" (11.43 mm), land width = .147" (3.73 mm) and the primer type is large pistol. Today, AR-style weapons are available in 9-millimeter, 10-millimeter, .45 ACP, .40. Or does that add too many variables? Some of you may wonder why there are no error bars and readings for standard deviation and there is a good explanation. I love mine and my 357s and 9mms and 10mms and 44s and…….. Joe Your right about the .45 ACP. maybe the sig has polygonal barrels like the glock…..they seem to give faster readings than traditional barrels. In CIP-regulated countries every pistol cartridge combination has to be proofed at 130% of this maximum CIP pressure to certify for sale to consumers. All the Buffalo Bore Ammunition ( www.buffalobore.com ) loads performed with little to no variance across any barrel length. About AR15.COM. I knew that rifle calibers such as .308 didn’t lose much if anything going from 26” to 13.5”, so imagine my surprise when the exact results came about from my most recent test. Thing is that it isn’t really supposed to be. In fact, the Smith & Wesson Shield 45 may very well be the best .45 for your dollar. I enjoyed it. The .45 is a fine caliber for a variety of tasks today. Though he preferred the .45 ACP over the 9mm, the celebrated gun writer Jeff Cooper still wasn't satisfied with just those two choices. When I began this . We also sell Ammo in bulk, so if you are looking to save money or stock up, consider our deals on Bulk Ammo. The low muzzle velocity also makes the bullet drop over long ranges, making hits more difficult; however, it is important to note that the vast majority of self-defense situations involving handguns typically occur at close ranges. [10] All sizes in millimeters (mm). You may be kidding some folks but not all my guy. I do FBI protocol ballistic shoots for a major manufacturer of law enforcement ammunition and can tell you from first hand experience that velocity is secondary to bullet placement, design and construction. Because standard pressure .45 ACP rounds fired from handguns and submachine guns are inherently subsonic, it is one of the most powerful pistol calibers available for use in suppressed weapons since subsonic rounds are quieter than supersonic rounds. The .45 ACP offers a tremendous advantage in this respect, and we haven’t really had a need to go the same distance in technology with the .45 ACP. This experience and the Thompson–LaGarde Tests of 1904 led the Army and the Cavalry to decide a minimum of .45 caliber was required in a new handgun. The SAAMI pressure limit for the .45 ACP is set at 21,000 psi (144.79 MPa) piezo pressure,[13] while ARCHIVED; Armory » Reloading. The low velocity and heavy weight of the .45 is great for striking large areas and creating large wounds. This .45 ACP velocity study was designed to shed some light on the idea that the .45 ACP has either surpassed other cartridges in terms of power and utility or finally reached obsolescence. You are wrong however about the 9mm. It is, in my mind, best suited to single-stack carry pistols given the modern pistols like the Shield 45 that can tame it and lose nothing in the process. Colt / .45 AC (Winchester Repeating Arms Company), This page was last edited on 18 December 2020, at 13:41. While the 147gr Federal HST expanded from 9mm (roughly .35cal) to on average 15mm or .61″, the .45 ACP expanded from (again, roughly) 11.5mm to 25mm (.45″ to 1″) Both (roughly!) With same ammo my .45 SHIELD, Colt 1911 5-inch, S&W 625-8 4-inch and Para Ordinance PC12 3.5-inch ALL recoil about the same! Cheap Ammo, In Stock Ammunition For Sale & Bulk Ammo. The two guns were virtually indistinguishable over the chronograph and had a typical variance so low that it could be said the performance was identical. This is a common practice for updating older cartridges to match the better quality of materials and workmanship in modern firearms.[19]. Overview. These cartridges have the same external dimensions as the standard-pressure cartridges and will chamber and fire in all firearms designed for the standard-pressure loadings. The terminology is generally given as ".45 ACP +P" and sometimes, but not always, appears on the headstamp. After the example of the Cavalry, the Army in turn had fielded versions of double-action revolvers in .38 Long Colt. Does it matter in terms of terminal performance within reasonably defensible distances? Not Ron, but a great question Old Cowboy. Renewing for my carry license I was able to put Five rounds in a 1″ circle from 7′ as fast as I could pull the trigger, under Five seconds. First state agency to authorize and issue SIGs. This is a video of … I agree with Ya Mamma. Every load and weapon tested are currently commercially available and unaltered from their factory form. Specialty rounds are available in weights under 100 grains (6.5 g) and over 260 grains (16.8 g); popular rounds among reloaders and target shooters include 185-grain and 230-grain (12 g and 15 g) bullets. velocity is simply away of controlling bullet performance and getting that bullet to the target. Many often wonder about the difference between 45 Colt vs. 45 ACP ammo – the former was a heavy, fast-moving bullet at 255 gr and 900+ fps, and was vital in settling and civilizing the American West. James, I don’t think the author was judging different firearms for accuracy or recoil, but addressing the ‘lack of velocity’ argument against short-barreled .45acp’s – which I think he showed very well. A longer barrel will ALWAYS produce higher muzzle velocity regardless of which s&w m&p is ur bff. For those who follow the energy dump and/or hydrostatic shock theories of wounding ballistics, this is ideal. Norma Range & Training 45 Auto. Brass: Primer. Is it the most effective cartridge available today? HST +P from a Kimber Custom II at 930 fps. Therefore it makes logistical sense that velocity lost it shorter barrels is quite small compared to other calibers. A main critique of the .45 ACP is the perceived lack of muzzle velocity when compared to other popular calibers like 9×19 or 10mm Auto. There is also a reduced likelihood of overpenetration, meaning that it is more likely that the projectile will transfer all of its kinetic energy to the intended target, thus more reliably incapacitating them. The latter inevitably produce a highly compressed shock wave, audible as a loud "crack", a small sonic boom, while they travel through the air. On the other hand I’ve studied numerous other shooting where shot placement was less than optimal and even hit numerous times, bad guys continued the fight. Other US military cartridges include: tracer M26 (red tip), blank M1921 (rolled crimp, red paper wad), M12 and M15 shot shells, and M9 dummy (holes in case). But I carry a 9MM Shield because of the load out, and the size and weight. During the late 19th century and early 20th century, the U.S. Cavalry began trials to replace their sidearm arsenal of issued .45 Colt Single Action Army (SAA) in favor of the more modern and versatile double-action revolver in .45 Colt. 543 ft. lbs. DWM, which submitted two Parabellums chambered in .45 ACP, withdrew from testing after the first round of tests, for unspecified reasons.[8]. A common theme you will run into when people are discussing the 10mm Auto is that it falls into an awkward weird little crevice somewhere between the performance of a .40 S&W or 9mm and the performance of larger calibers such as the .45 ACP and .357. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - .45 ACP Loads - Velocity and Bullet Types. Most quality bullets, in all the defensive handgun calibers are designed to work(expand) at a fairly wide… Read more ». And if you run into that sentiment, you will usually find an argument against it following soon after. I wouldn’t call it a debate, however there were some sideways comments and tense laughs across the course of the conversation. Cartridge Type: HandgunHeight: 0.898\"Width: 0.48\"Average FPS: 937Average Energy: 403Average Gr: 207Recoil: 0.93Power Rank: 3.88 of 7.45 Auto / ACP is the top end pistol cartridge that packs more energy than the 9mm, the 40 S & W, and of course the dinky 380 ACP. That being said, I am not openly advocating this as a solution for everyone. The first production, at Frankford Arsenal, was marked "F A 8 11", for the August 1911 date. The cartridge headspaces on the mouth of the case at the L3 datum reference. In addition to firearms-related work, Josh enjoys working with animals and researching conservation projects in his home state of Michigan. Probably not. Tags: 45 acp 45 auto 45 cal geco ammunition full metal jacket. What ballistics aficionados tend to argue is “Stoppng Power” which is the ability of a round to stop your attacker. 45-70" 4 ammo to get the id number. It is my opinion that this caliber isn’t going anywhere anytime fast. The enterprising statisticians among you will have to settle for this more practical display. PMC is a pretty run of the mill cartridge manufacturer and the FMJ's bullet won't muck with the trajectory and velocity. The first thing I noticed was that across all loads and guns, the .45 ACP in any form is essentially the same in a short 3.3” barrel and a standard 5”. My CCW is a Colt Commander, 10 rnd mag, I have put over 3500 rnds through it and it has not failed to function properly yet. The cartridge also comes in various specialty rounds of varying weights and performance levels.[2]. The ammunition I received ranged from simple ball loads to exotic self-defense rounds that could easily be called art due to the quality of their machining. [14] A factor rated by the recent FBI testing was accuracy and time to recover. It is dimensionally similar to the .45 ACP round but has a thicker case wall and is loaded to higher pressures, which offers an average 300 feet per second (91 m/s) improvement in muzzle velocity over the .45 ACP. If you like your 45s, and more importantly, can hit with it, go for it. +P means higher pressure, and the loads are several steps above the norm. The countertop became a courtroom of sorts and I found myself in the middle of a caliber war, this time about the merits of the .45 ACP. Does this data also apply to even shorter barrels, such as the 2.5″ charter arms pitbull .45 acp? I became very familiar with the cartridge in the last few years and, with this test, I’d say that I have a very good understanding of what this cartridge is and what it offers to the consumer, police officer, and concealed carrier. This means the cartridge is loaded to a higher maximum pressure level than the original SAAMI cartridge standard, generating higher velocity and more muzzle energy. Interestingly enough, people who fear the recoil of the 1911 in .45 ACP caliber will shoot a .357 Magnum and think nothing of it. In a remarkable display of performance, the Lehigh Defense ( www.lehighdefense.com ) .120gr load had a variance of only 29fps across the average velocities from all four barrels! Tracer ammunition was identified by painting the bullet tip red. #OldCowboy, If you email me the spreadsheet I can do a proper statistical analysis and post it on threefiveseven.net‬. [8] The Colt pistol was adopted as the Model 1911. 45 ACP Muzzle Velocity. He is an active competition shooter with 14 medals from Camp Perry. The cartridge/pistol combination was quite successful but not satisfactory for U.S. military purposes. These are the +P-rated loadings. The .45 ACP also operates at a relatively low maximum chamber pressure rating of 21,000 psi (145 MPa) (compared to 35,000 psi/240 MPa for 9mm Parabellum and .40 S&W, 37,500 psi/260 MPa for 10mm Auto, 40,000 psi/280 MPa for .357 SIG), which due to a low bolt thrusthelps extend service life of …